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November 2, 2025

Dynamics in Jordan Algebras

Posted by John Baez

In ordinary quantum mechanics, in the special case where observables are described as self-adjoint n×nn \times n complex matrices, we can describe time evolution of an observable O(t)O(t) using Heisenberg’s equation

ddtO(t)=i[H,O(t)] \frac{d}{d t} O(t) = -i [H, O(t)]

where HH is a fixed self-adjoint matrix called the Hamiltonian. This framework is great when we want to focus on observables rather than states. But Heisenberg’s equation doesn’t make sense in a general Jordan algebra. In this stripped-down framework, all we can do is raise observables to powers and take real linear combinations of them. This lets us define a ‘Jordan product’ of observables:

AB=12((A+B) 2A 2B 2)=12(AB+BA) A \circ B = \frac{1}{2} ((A + B)^2 - A^2 - B^2) = \frac{1}{2} (A B + B A)

but not commutators and not multiplication by ii. What do we do then?

I wrote a long paper about this:

My starting-point was that self-adjoint complex matrices form not only a Jordan algebra with product

AB=12(AB+BA) A \circ B = \frac{1}{2} (A B + B A)

but also a Lie algebra with bracket

i[A,B]=i(ABBA) -i [A, B] = -i(A B - B A)

See, the commutator of two self-adjoint matrices is skew-adjoint, but we can multiply it by ii, or more conventionally i-i, to get something self-adjoint. That’s what is going on in Heisenberg’s equation. But this trick doesn’t work for other Jordan algebras, at least not automatically—so there was a lot to say.

I just bumped into a nice paper on this issue that I hadn’t seen before:

The idea here is pretty wild: you can replace the commutator in Heisenberg’s equation by an associator:

(A,B,C)=(AB)CA(BC) (A, B, C) = (A \circ B) \circ C - A \circ (B \circ C)

This is well-defined whenever our observables are elements in a Jordan algebra. Jordan algebras are always commutative, but rarely associative!

Here’s the trick. Let 𝔥 n()\mathfrak{h}_n(\mathbb{C}) be the Jordan algebra of self-adjoint n×nn \times n complex matrices, and let’s start with Heisenberg’s equation

ddtO(t)=i[H,O(t)] \frac{d}{d t} O(t) = -i [H, O(t)]

where H𝔥 n()H \in \mathfrak{h}_n(\mathbb{C}). Suppose we can write

H=4i[X,Y] H = -4i [X, Y]

for some X,Y𝔥 n()X, Y \in \mathfrak{h}_n(\mathbb{C}). In this case we can use a really cool identity to express the commutator in Heisenberg’s equation in terms of an associator:

[[X,Y],A]=14(X,A,Y) [[X, Y], A] = -\frac{1}{4}(X, A, Y)

This holds in any associative algebra if you define [X,Y]=XYYX[X,Y] = X Y - Y X, XY=12(XY+YX)X \circ Y = \tfrac{1}{2} (X Y + Y X) and (X,A,Y)=(X, A, Y) = (XA)YX(AY) (X \circ A) \circ Y - X \circ (A \circ Y). It’s easy to check: just expand out both sides and compare them!

Using this identity, we get

ddtO(t)=(X,O(t),Y) \frac{d}{d t} O(t) = (X, O(t), Y)

Now we’re describing dynamics using only operations that are available in any Jordan algebra!

This raises the question of when a self-adjoint complex matrix HH can be written as 4i[X,Y]-4i [X, Y] for self-adjoint matrices X,YX, Y. This is true whenever HH is traceless, since 𝔰𝔲(n)\mathfrak{su}(n) is a compact simple real Lie algebra, and every element of such a Lie algebra is a commutator (as shown by Akhieser).

But any self-adjoint complex matrix HH is of the form H+λIH' + \lambda I where HH' is traceless, so writing H=4i[X,Y]H' = -4i[X,Y] we have

[H,O(t)]=[H+λI,O(t)]=[H,O(t)] [H, O(t)] = [H' + \lambda I, O(t)] = [H', O(t)] =4i[[X,Y],O(t)]=i(X,O(t),Y) = -4i [[X,Y], O(t)] = i (X, O(t), Y)

so we can rewrite Heisenberg’s equation as

ddtO(t)=(X,O(t),Y) \frac{d}{d t} O(t) = (X, O(t), Y)

Moreover, in any Jordan algebra, any pair of elements X,YX, Y determines a derivation (X,,Y)(X, \cdot, Y): see Section I.7 of Jacobson’s Structure and Representations of Jordan Algebras. In the finite-dimensional case there is no difficulty with exponentiating any derivation to obtain a one-parameter group of automorphisms. Thus, for any elements X,YX, Y of a finite-dimensional Jordan algebra, the solution of the above equation always determines a one-parameter group of Jordan algebra automorphisms! And this is just what we’d want for describing how observables change with time.

The are two obvious next questions: one mathematical and one more philosophical.

First, how many one-parameter groups of Jordan algebra automorphisms do we actually get out of solutions to

ddtO(t)=(X,O(t),Y) \frac{d}{d t} O(t) = (X, O(t), Y)

In the case of 𝔥 n()\mathfrak{h}_n(\mathbb{C}), we get them all, since it’s already known that we get them all from Heisenberg’s equation

ddtO(t)=i[H,O(t)] \frac{d}{d t} O(t) = - i [H , O(t)]

What about 𝔥 n()\mathfrak{h}_n(\mathbb{R}) and 𝔥 n()\mathfrak{h}_n(\mathbb{H})? I’m actually more interested in the exceptional Jordan algebra 𝔥 3(𝕆)\mathfrak{h}_3(\mathbb{O}), and here it seems we get them all! This was shown in a paper that’s fairly hard to find even though it’s available for free online:

It starts on page 214 of the PDF file.

(The editor of this journal has some crazy ideas, which has put off some people I’m talking to about this paper. But you can’t judge a paper by the journal it appeared in. Truini and Biedenharn are good — in fact Biedenharn is famous for helping discover an identity, the Biedenharn–Elliott identity, that amounts to the pentagon identity for the category of representations of SU(2)\text{SU}(2)! And the paper looks fine, as far as I can tell.)

Second, the more philosophical question: what does it mean to describe dynamics using not one observable, the Hamiltonian, but two? Perhaps the best way to tackle this is to try doing it, and seeing how it works. Note that this method is not just good for dynamics, but for any Lie group of symmetries.

Posted at November 2, 2025 10:25 AM UTC

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Re: Dynamics in Jordan Algebras

Latham Boyle pointed out that in a Jordan algebra we always have

(A,X,B)=[L B,L A](X) (A, X, B) = [L_B, L_A](X)

where

(A,X,B)=(AX)BA(XB) (A, X, B) = (A \circ X) \circ B - A \circ (X \circ B)

is the associator and L AL_A is the operation of left multiplication by AA. The proof is instantaneous, because the Jordan product is commutative:

(A,X,B) = (AX)BA(XB) = B(AX)A(BA) = [L B,L A](X) \begin{array}{ccl} (A, X, B) &=& (A \circ X) \circ B - A \circ (X \circ B) \\ &=& B \circ (A \circ X) - A \circ (B \circ A) \\ &=& [L_B, L_A](X) \end{array}

Posted by: John Baez on November 4, 2025 2:36 PM | Permalink | Reply to this

Re: Dynamics in Jordan Algebras

Concerning the first (mathematical) question, I believe that you’re essentially asking if every derivation of a Jordan algebra is inner, where “inner” in this context means a derivation of the form X(A,X,B).X\mapsto (A,X,B).

For finite dimensional Jordan algebras I think that the answer is yes, see Satz 3.1 of the 1966 book “Jordan-Algebren” from H. Braun and M. Koecher. I admit that I haven’t read it myself…

Concerning the second (philosophical) question, I wonder if it would be more pleasing to write Z=A+iBZ = A+i B, so that i(A,X,B)=12(Z *,X,Z).i(A,X,B) = \frac{1}{2}(Z^*,X,Z).

Posted by: Ed on November 4, 2025 4:55 PM | Permalink | Reply to this

Re: Dynamics in Jordan Algebras

Thanks! I’m now quite interested in whether all derivations of finite-dimensional Jordan algebras are inner.

Your idea of complexifying the Jordan algebra to write down that formula has some independent interest, since the complexification of the Jordan algebra of 3×33 \times 3 self-adjoint octonion matrices is another very interesting Jordan algebra, with relations to E 6E_6 and E 7E_7. I’ll have to remember this idea and see if leads to something interesting.

Posted by: John Baez on November 10, 2025 2:06 PM | Permalink | Reply to this

Re: Dynamics in Jordan Algebras

It seems so trivial a follow-on, but your philosophical question seems to raise a further question and the [L X,L Y][L_X,L_Y] representation, what is the kernel of the Adjoint Commutator, construed as a map from the tensor product of your algebra with itself?

But then I have to ask, because I’m not up on these particulars, is the Tensor Product of Jordan algebras naturally a Jordan Algebra? A quick webcrawler query says this got a partial affirmative (there is “a tensor product” for “special” Jordan algebras, whatever “special” means) just seven years ago. Supposing it makes sense to talk that way, we start to wonder when is “in terms of two observables instead of one” the right way to describe it, and when might we prefer sums of such pairs instead. (I’ve forgotten the word for this kind of thing… “mixed state” wants to be voiced, or something like “nontrivially entangled”… bah-at-my-memory. I’ve too much welding to do.)

Posted by: Jesse C. McKeown on November 8, 2025 8:33 PM | Permalink | Reply to this

Re: Dynamics in Jordan Algebras

If you tensor the underlying vector spaces of two Jordan algebras, there’s no good way in general to make that into a Jordan algebra. In this respect they’re like Lie algebras rather than associative algebras.

Indeed there seems to be no good tensor product of Jordan algebras, in general.

A Jordan algebra is special if it’s obtained from an associative algebra (A,)(A, \cdot) by defining a Jordan product by

ab=12(ab+ba)a \circ b = \tfrac{1}{2} (a \cdot b + b \cdot a)

and then taking some subspace JAJ \subseteq A that’s closed under \circ. For example if AA is associative algebra of n×nn \times n complex matrices, the subspace JAJ \subseteq A of self-adjoint matrices becomes a Jordan algebra in this way, so we call it ‘special’.

Given two special Jordan algebras you can tensor two associative algebras that they came from, and then form a special Jordan algebra from that in various ways. But I don’t know how to turn this into a procedure to tensor Jordan algebras—and I suspect wiser heads have tried this and failed. (For one thing, there’s in general no way to uniquely find AA and the associative product \cdot starting from the Jordan product \circ on a Jordan algebra JJ, even when such a choice exists.)

Among the finite-dimensional simple real Jordan algebras, all but three are special, and the remaining three are exceptional. So, it’s like a sweet first-grade teacher who considers all the students special—except for three exceptional ones.

You’re certainly right about this: you can get a derivation of a Jordan algebra JJ, not just from any pair of elements in JJ, but from any element of JJJ \otimes J. Whether this makes it easier to understand what’s going on, I’m not sure.

It’s also true that for a Euclidean Jordan algebra we have a canonical isomorphism JJ *J \cong J^\ast so we can treat ‘states’ (normalized positive linear functionals on JJ) as certain observables (where we say elements of JJ are ‘observables’). The states form a convex set, and the extremal points are called ‘pure’, while the rest, which are convex linear combinations of the pure ones, are called ‘mixed’.

But whether we can treat elements of J *J *J^\ast \otimes J^\ast as mixed states, I’m not so sure—since JJJ \otimes J is not a Jordan algebra in general.

Posted by: John Baez on November 10, 2025 1:56 PM | Permalink | Reply to this

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