Skip to the Main Content

Note:These pages make extensive use of the latest XHTML and CSS Standards. They ought to look great in any standards-compliant modern browser. Unfortunately, they will probably look horrible in older browsers, like Netscape 4.x and IE 4.x. Moreover, many posts use MathML, which is, currently only supported in Mozilla. My best suggestion (and you will thank me when surfing an ever-increasing number of sites on the web which have been crafted to use the new standards) is to upgrade to the latest version of your browser. If that's not possible, consider moving to the Standards-compliant and open-source Mozilla browser.

July 24, 2025

Lawvere’s Work on Arms Control

Posted by John Baez

Did you know that Lawvere did classified work on arms control in the 1960s, back when he was writing his thesis? Did you know that the French government offered him a job in military intelligence?

The following paper is interesting for many reasons:

The mathematics is interesting. But Lawvere also describes his classified work on arms control in the 1960s, back when he was writing his thesis! Applied category theorists who worrry about military applications of their work will see their concerns are not new. Lawvere’s employer goes unnamed, but its description fits the RAND Corporation.

My acceptance of the job offered by the “Think Tank” in Southern California depended on an agreement that the main topic treated would be Kennedy’s Arms Control and Disarmament Agency. The preliminary interview in the Pentagon was requested by that Agency. Somewhat more precisely, the aim of the study would be: planning for the technical support of an Arms Control Treaty between the Superpowers, for example, of a reliable verification protocol to be agreed upon.

It was envisaged that a protocol would involve three tiers of verification: Space, Stratosphere, and On-site. The passage from one tier to the next would follow probabilistically from continuing observations. What would be the mathematical framework under which this whole fantasy would function? Someone described it as a “network of probabilistic mappings”. “What would that mean?” I asked myself: “It must involve diagrams in a category extending the monoid of Markov processes”, and then I produced the present document, which served as an Appendix to an Appendix of a large SECRET document.

The proposal was to study a projected system of verification and inspection for a possible Arms Control Agreement between the Superpowers. The system would be organized into the three levels: satellite surveillance, which could trigger the request for over-flight inspection, that in turn could trigger an on-site inspection. Of course, the trigger thresholds would be a matter of diplomacy, but the system as a whole would involve an elaborate network of “probabilistic mappings”.

The whole thing had to be scrutinized by the Pentagon before the Arms Control Agency could do anything. Probably, passing through so many hands increased its exposure to espionage. The leader of the group within the Think Tank stated that an important calculation to be done by the study would be the determination of the probability of the discovery of missiles concealed on the ocean floor as part of a planned circumvention of any treaty. That was also the year of the Cuban missile crisis

A few years later I came across a Russian document containing several of the results of my unpublished thesis, including the mistakes, (as well as the missing two lines that we later discovered had been missed by the typist). But there was no attribution. And in Moscow the lectures were beginning on a very similar category, called the Markov category (not without justification, of course, although I don’t believe Markov himself used categories).

I was surprised a couple of years later by being offered a job with French military intelligence. The one who transmitted that offer was a collaborator of M. Giry, which may explain why she knew about the “secret” developments in the US.

Apparently regarding the contact with the Arms Control Agency as dormant, the leaders of the Think Tank had a further proposal, disregarding their initial agreement with me: First, I should study books by Mao Tse-tung and Che Guevara as a preparation for evaluating a large system designed to eliminate the guerilla threat in Vietnam. My last paychecks were for studying that proposal. Of course, I advised against it, after having verified mathematically that the proposed system was unfeasible. The last time I saw the director of the “Vietnam Proposal” was at the old Waltham Watch Factory, which had been taken over as a subsidiary of the California Think Tank. Naturally, my report met with utter disapproval. I took a bus from Waltham to NYC in order to defend my thesis at Hamilton Hall, in front of Eilenberg, Kadison, and Morgenbesser. Now I could complete my application for a teaching job at Reed College.

A few years later the New York Times reported on the failure of a large system that differed only in detail from the one I had analyzed. The supporters of the proposal had taken the plan and defected to another Think Tank.

Near the end of the manuscript there’s a bit from a 2016 letter from Lawvere to Rosebrugh:

I realize that there is a group of younger researchers who would like to know more about this topic (so do I). Some are claiming that it will become a key ingredient in DARPA’s thrust toward “genuine” artificial intelligence.

Posted at July 24, 2025 12:48 PM UTC

15 Comments & 0 Trackbacks

Re: Lawvere’s Work on Arms Control

In case anyone is wondering, the n-Cafe is back in operation here in its usual place.

Posted by: John Baez on July 25, 2025 8:50 AM | Permalink | Reply to this

Re: Lawvere’s Work on Arms Control

In Lawvere’s commentary to the linked article (Probabilistic Mappings ) he notes the actual intention of an averaging monad P(A)=P(A)= the part of Hom R(R A,R)Hom_R(R^A,R) consisting of those functionals … provides for an easy route to understand the algebras of the Giry monad restricted to the full subcategory of standard Borel spaces. The trick is to take R=[0,]R=[0,\infty], which is the one point compactification of [0,)[0,\infty), which is a second-countable compact Hausdorff space (and hence V=[0,]V=[0,\infty] is a Polish space). One now simply applies the tools that Lawvere and Rosebrugh lay out in their text Sets for Mathematics concerning weakly averaging VV-generalized points. This leads to a fully faithful functor Std SCvx opY[V,Set]\mathbf{Std}_{SCvx}^{op} \xrightarrow{Y} [\mathbf{V},\mathbf{Set}] which spits out the algebras (barycenter maps) G(A)AG(A) \rightarrow A using the fact that V\mathbf{V}, the category with the single object VV, is codense in the category Std SCvx\mathbf{Std}_{SCvx}. (The whole point of VV-generalized points is to obtain such a fully faithful functor.) The details are written up on the nLab page for the Giry monad.

Posted by: Kirk Sturtz on July 25, 2025 12:15 PM | Permalink | Reply to this

Re: Lawvere’s Work on Arms Control

Of course, I advised against it, after having verified mathematically that the proposed system was unfeasible.

I wonder how one would mathematically prove that a plan to defuse guerilla tactics is not viable?

Posted by: Matteo Capucci on July 26, 2025 3:24 PM | Permalink | Reply to this

Re: Lawvere’s Work on Arms Control

I wonder that too! Of course it can’t be proved without assumptions, and it’s easy to prove with enough assumptions… so I wonder what assumptions Lawvere made and how surprising his deduction was, given these assumptions.

I bet he wrote that sentence with a twinkle of humor in his eye.

Posted by: John Baez on July 27, 2025 9:01 AM | Permalink | Reply to this

Re: Lawvere’s Work on Arms Control

Ell oh ell.

Only a guy as mathematically sophisticated and practically naive as Lawvere could

i) take a few absorbing Markov chains and make them so inscrutable that DoD would decide “let’s dangle this in front of other militaries so it will cook their brains”

and

ii) miss the obvious fact that he was being cut loose, and most likely also being used by both the Americans and French in collaboration with each other versus independently.

Posted by: Steve Huntsman on July 28, 2025 1:10 PM | Permalink | Reply to this

Re: Lawvere’s Work on Arms Control

Bill explained to me in a private conversation at the Matematisk Institut in Aarhus that it was his horror at the ‘war games’ he encountered in his youth at the Rand corporation that drove him toward Marx.

Posted by: Gavin Wraith on July 29, 2025 11:33 AM | Permalink | Reply to this

Re: Lawvere’s Work on Arms Control

Thanks for telling us that! I was curious about the evolution of his attitude. So perhaps the RAND Corporation may be indirectly responsible for Lawvere’s embrace of Maoism. It’s funny how these things work.

(By the way, I am regularly horrified by how the The Guardian calls NASA “Nasa”, and so on. Someone there dislikes all-caps acronyms. So now I feel compelled to tell the kids reading this that the RAND Corporation was not named after Ayn Rand: it grew out of Project RAND, which stood for “Research and Development”.)

Posted by: John Baez on July 29, 2025 1:19 PM | Permalink | Reply to this

Re: Lawvere’s Work on Arms Control

So many words enter the language as acronyms and thereafter different rules of capitalization apply. I am not sure whether RAND Corporation has reached that yet.

Bill’s conversation took place after Peter Johnstone had given a talk about Conway’s Numbers and Games. Bill suddenly exploded at the word ‘games’ to the audience’s surprise. Saunders came to the rescue and serenity was restored. But this incident persuaded me that Bill had suffered genuine trauma.

Posted by: Gavin Wraith on July 29, 2025 8:08 PM | Permalink | Reply to this

Re: Lawvere’s Work on Arms Control

In which wanting peace and thus preparing for war was so traumatic as to catalyze enthusiasm for the Great Leap Forward

Surely the Herman Kahn types at RAND immediately thought of a barium meal test and did it

Posted by: Steve Huntsman on July 30, 2025 1:02 PM | Permalink | Reply to this

Re: Lawvere’s Work on Arms Control

Barium meal test per Wikipedia

Posted by: Steve Huntsman on July 30, 2025 5:08 PM | Permalink | Reply to this

Re: Lawvere’s Work on Arms Control

The category Lawvere introduced in 1962 does indeed look the same as the one described by Chentsov (and presented by Kolmogorov) in a short article in 1965 (the term “Markov category” does not appear, but “Markov morphism” does) and later used throughout his 1972 monograph (which calls the category of measurable spaces and “Markov morphisms” the “decision rule category”). This is peculiar, especially given that the latter monograph is often cited by modern books on information geometry as one of the foundational works.

Posted by: Alex Shpilkin on July 30, 2025 1:25 PM | Permalink | Reply to this

Re: Lawvere’s Work on Arms Control

I didn’t know about this episode in Lawvere’s life, but I find it interesting that it was connected to his work on categories of stochastic relations.

It was envisaged that a protocol would involve three tiers of verification: Space, Stratosphere, and On-site. The passage from one tier to the next would follow probabilistically from continuing observations. What would be the mathematical framework under which this whole fantasy would function? Someone described it as a “network of probabilistic mappings”.

I’m fond of the idea that probability and statistics can be seen as a branch of logic, as the word “inference” suggests. (The University of Barcelona used to have a department of Probability, Logic and Statistics, in that order.) Going further, I’m suspicious of any attempt to apply logic outside mathematics that doesn’t involve some probabilistic aspect. So it’s interesting that, in Lawvere’s telling, probability was built into their mathematical model from the start. His word “fantasy” suggests that he still took the whole thing with a big pinch of salt, even so.

Mathematicians are used to operating in a world of precise definitions and watertight chains of reasoning. I think we can be particularly prone to naively exporting that mode of argument to the real world, where nothing is precise or watertight — and then making it worse by attaching ourselves too confidently to our conclusions. This can lead us to overlook factors such as ambiguity, irrationality, stupidity, accidents, unforeseen events, hidden agendas, power struggles, dishonesty, deception, misinformation, factionalism, whims, corruption, laziness, and plain incompetence.

Posted by: Tom Leinster on August 4, 2025 11:35 AM | Permalink | Reply to this

Re: Lawvere’s Work on Arms Control

It’s nice seeing all those words used in a row in a comment that’s not a flame.

Posted by: John Baez on August 4, 2025 12:40 PM | Permalink | Reply to this

Re: Lawvere’s Work on Arms Control

:-) I didn’t list the most flattering aspects of human nature.

I guess my main point was that, to put it mildly, human beings are not agents of pure reason, like players in some idealized game theory scenario. Nothing about human affairs is quite precise. Like it or not, we are animals, with bodies and hormones and digestive systems that affect our behaviour, with irrational fears and inexplicable instincts developed over millions of years of evolution. Any attempt to reason about politics etc. that doesn’t take that into account is missing an important dimension.

There’s a sense in which mathematics is the easiest subject of all, because it’s the only subject in which everything is precise. (I’ve read both Bertrand Russell and Eugenia Cheng make this point.) In my view, mathematicians reasoning about human affairs should come to it with caution and humility, because reasoning about real life is so much harder. But it’s extremely difficult for us to resist the mathematical mode of reasoning that comes to us so reflexively.

Posted by: Tom Leinster on August 4, 2025 6:23 PM | Permalink | Reply to this

Re: Lawvere’s Work on Arms Control

If people do not believe that mathematics is simple, it is only because they do not realize how complicated life is. —John von Neumann

https://homepage.math.uiowa.edu/~jorgen/vonneumannquotesource.html

Posted by: Steve Huntsman on August 4, 2025 6:45 PM | Permalink | Reply to this

Post a New Comment