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August 6, 2008

This Week’s Finds in Mathematical Physics (Week 268)

Posted by John Baez

In week268 of This Week’s Finds see a stunning view of Jupiter’s moon Io, and then learn about Frobenius algebras in physics and logic…

… and a bit about modular tensor categories and music theory, too!

Here you can see Io and Europa in front of Jupiter, sulfurous yellow and icy white:

A couple questions that came up:

  • Is the structure I described really equivalent to a *-autonomous category as usually defined? I haven’t had the energy to check.
  • What’s the relation between “cospans of finite sets as the free symmetric monoidal category on a commutative separable Frobenius algebra” and “commutative separable Frobenius algebras and algebra morphisms as FinSet op”? It sounds like some Lawvere-ish thing where the category of free algebras is the opposite of the algebraic theory they’re algebras of… but here we’re dealing with PROPs, not algebraic theories! And cospans are getting into game…
Posted at August 6, 2008 7:12 PM UTC

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88 Comments & 1 Trackback

Re: This Week’s Finds in Mathematical Physics (Week 268)

Thanks for another intriguing article!

I found a few typos:

“3) [Jame|Jamie] Vicary, Categorical formulation”

“12) Marcelo Aguiar” - your previous reference was numbered 16. Subsequent references carry on from 13.

“some books on math and [musics|music]”

Posted by: Stuart on August 6, 2008 10:16 PM | Permalink | Reply to this

Re: This Week’s Finds in Mathematical Physics (Week 268)

Hi John,

Here’s the precise reference to my paper with Dusko Pavlovic:

Bob Coecke and Dusko Pavlovic (2008) Quantum measurements without sums. In: The Mathematics of Quantum Computation and Technology, pp.559-596, eds. Chen, Kauffman and Lomonaco, Chapman and Hall/CRC. Also available as arXiv:quant-ph/0608035.

Posted by: bob on August 7, 2008 10:48 AM | Permalink | Reply to this

Re: This Week’s Finds in Mathematical Physics (Week 268)

Thanks for all these corrections, Stuart and Bob! I also added a bit more on the physics intepretation of these commutative separable Frobenius algebras as ‘classical data types’ — see below.

Posted by: John Baez on August 7, 2008 1:35 PM | Permalink | Reply to this

Re: This Week’s Finds in Mathematical Physics (Week 268)

About the *-autonomy question: I am not sure this works.

Suppose we have a symmetric monoidal category (C,,I) and a contravariant functor. There is a (not too well-known) notion of what it means for a contravariant functor

¬:CC

to carry a strength with respect to the monoidal product: it involves a family of maps

θ a,b:b¬(ab)¬(a)

which is extranatural in the arguments a,b (natural in a and dinatural in b), and which is compatible with the monoidal structure in a way which I’ll leave to your imagination (hint: θ ,bc should be expressible in terms of components of θ ,b and θ ,c).

[Here’s one way of motivating that notion: pretend that we’re in the case where C is symmetric monoidal closed. As you know, a strength on a functor F:CC is equivalent to a structure of C-enrichment on F, in the sense of having a suitable family of natural maps

a bFa Fb

where I am using exponential notation to denote the internal hom. To get the strength from the enrichment, just take the composite

a(ab) bF(ab) Fb,

where the first map is coevaluation and the second uses enrichment, and use the hom adjunction to transpose this to

aFbF(ab)

Similarly, given a C-enriched contravariant functor F:CC, we get composites

a(ab) bFb F(ab)

which transposes to

F(ab)aFb

as above in the case F=¬.]

In order to have *-autonomy, you absolutely need to have such a strength on ¬ as part of the structure. [It gives you for instance “tertium non datur” a¬a¬I.] But I don’t see any way of getting that from your data.

In fact, without thinking about it too hard, it looks as though given any monoidal category C and any contravariant adjoint equivalence ¬ on C, you can rig a monoidal structure on C op just by transporting the monoidal structure on C across ¬, so that ¬ is automatically monoidal and the adjoint equivalence lifts to a monoidal adjoint equivalence. But I’m feeling a little too lazy to check this out carefully just now.

Two final remarks:

  • The two notions of strength, covariant and contravariant, were discussed in a paper by Gerry Brady and myself on categorifying Peirce’s system Alpha [his existential graphs for propositional calculus]: we interpret his rule of iteration in categorified form as pertaining precisely to these notions of strength. We observed in our paper that the notion of *-autonomous category could be expressed in exactly these terms: a symmetric monoidal C equipped with a strong contravariant adjoint equivalence ¬:CC [where the unit and counit of the adjunction respect the strengths]. The paper appeared in JPAA [vol. 149 (3), 213-239].
  • IIRC, Robin Houston once explained to me a way of defining *-autonomous categories as commutative Frobenius pseudomonoids in the bicategory of categories and bimodules – perhaps he’d be willing to tell you more.
Posted by: Todd Trimble on August 7, 2008 2:04 AM | Permalink | Reply to this

Re: This Week’s Finds in Mathematical Physics (Week 268)

Sorry – you already did mention in TWF 268 that last point about *-autonomous categories being Frobenius pseudomonoids in the bicategory of categories and profunctors. I skipped over that by reading too quickly – my bad.

Posted by: Todd Trimble on August 7, 2008 2:11 AM | Permalink | Reply to this

Re: This Week’s Finds in Mathematical Physics (Week 268)

Todd wrote:

Sorry – you already did mention in TWF 268 that last point about *-autonomous categories being Frobenius pseudomonoids in the bicategory of categories and profunctors.

Yes, this is the result I was attempting to give people a feeling for. But since normal folks run away screaming when someone says “a *-autonomous category is just a Frobenius pseudomonoid in the bicategory of categories and pseudofunctors”, I wanted to sneak up on this idea very, very cautiously.

So, I wanted to first sketch how *-autonomous categories naturally show up in logic, and then segue over to Street’s description of *-autonomous categories as Frobenius pseudomonoids.

But, I’m also trying to understand Melliès’ work on ‘game semantics’, so I wanted to work that in too…

I know that Melliès was very much influenced by your paper with Gerry Brady. So, he must know this result of yours, and he must have been trying to explain it to me:

… the notion of *-autonomous category could be expressed in exactly these terms: a symmetric monoidal C equipped with a strong contravariant adjoint equivalence ¬:CC [where the unit and counit of the adjunction respect the strengths].

But, the philosophy behind ‘game semantics’ seems to involve treating the two copies of C as two ‘players’ — the guy who is fighting to prove some proposition, and the challenger who is trying to disprove them! The de Morgan duality built into logic is supposed to be nicely captured by this notion. To bring out this idea, Melliès prefers to talk about C versus C op, instead of two copies of C.

This should be a minor esthetic decision, at least for defining *-autonomous categories… so I should be able to take your result and formulate it in terms of a covariant adjoint equivalence between C and C op. Right?

It’s supposed to be like defining a Frobenius algebra by saying you have an algebra A, another algebra structure on A *, and an isomorphism between them with some nice properties.

Posted by: John Baez on August 7, 2008 11:17 AM | Permalink | Reply to this

Re: This Week’s Finds in Mathematical Physics (Week 268)

Well, there are various ways of expressing *-autonomy as you know. One which is more symmetric-looking, and close in spirit to the Frobenius pseudomonoid business, is that there is an adjunction which connects the tensor products:

abcab *c

(where I am using to denote the dual tensor product, with slight misgivings for all the obvious reasons), and it is this interaction between the tensor products which one wants to express somehow. The suspicion I was expressing above is that with your setup, you’re not getting that level of interaction between the tensor products: unless I’m awfully mistaken [in which case I profusely apologize!], you’re getting basically just (categorified) De Morgan duality and double negation = identity, and that’s not enough.

Another way of putting it (and again I know you must know this) is that the structure must make provision for morphisms

aa *0

(where 0 denotes I *) and

Ia *a

satisfying some trickily expressed triangular equations. The trickiness involves an interaction between the tensor products of the form

a(bc)(ab)c

which simultaneously expresses a strength of c with respect to , and a co-strength of a with respect to . If you see how to get this from your setup or a modification of your setup, then I guess we’re both happy! :-)

Posted by: Todd Trimble on August 7, 2008 1:56 PM | Permalink | Reply to this

Re: This Week’s Finds in Mathematical Physics (Week 268)

John wrote:

Melliès prefers to talk about C versus C op, instead of two copies of C.

This should be a minor esthetic decision, at least for defining *-autonomous categories… so I should be able to take [Todd’s] result and formulate it in terms of a covariant adjoint equivalence between C and C op. Right?

Now I think the answer is yes — and I’ve attempted such a reformulation here.

Posted by: John Baez on August 10, 2008 8:28 PM | Permalink | Reply to this

Re: This Week’s Finds in Mathematical Physics (Week 268)

Todd wrote:

In fact, without thinking about it too hard, it looks as though given any monoidal category C and any contravariant adjoint equivalence ¬ on C, you can rig a monoidal structure on C op just by transporting the monoidal structure on C across ¬, so that ¬ is automatically monoidal and the adjoint equivalence lifts to a monoidal adjoint equivalence. But I’m feeling a little too lazy to check this out carefully just now.

The only thing that could possibly go wrong is in lifting the adjoint equivalence to a monoidal adjoint equivalence. But this would be incredibly shocking, since I bet an adjoint equivalence is as close to an isomorphism of categories as we can get without going ‘evil’ and imposing equations between objects.

(Hmm, it would be fun to try to prove a precise theorem along these lines. Say everything you can say about the concept of ‘isomorphism of categories’ that’s expressible in the language of categories, functors, natural transformations and equations between natural transformations… not equations between functors or categories. I claim you’ve then given a definition of ‘adjoint equivalence’.)

Posted by: John Baez on August 7, 2008 12:57 PM | Permalink | Reply to this

Re: This Week’s Finds in Mathematical Physics (Week 268)

But this would be incredibly shocking

Sorry, I’m not sure whether you mean you believe me or don’t believe me! :-) Right now I’m leaning towards the former, but for what it’s worth, I overcame my earlier laziness and worked through the details, and I believe my earlier self! :-)

Posted by: Todd Trimble on August 7, 2008 6:00 PM | Permalink | Reply to this

Re: This Week’s Finds in Mathematical Physics (Week 268)

Sorry for the ambiguity. I was trying to say it would be incredibly shocking if we could not lift an adjoint equivalence to a monoidal adjoint equivalence in the situation you described.

I tried to explain my intuition: obviously we can lift the adjoint equivalence if it’s an isomorphism, and “I bet an adjoint equivalence is as close to an isomorphism of categories as we can get without going ‘evil’ and imposing equations between objects.”

In other words: I bet that given any “non-evil” structure on a category C, and an adjoint equivalence f:CD, we can use f to transfer this structure to D and then lift f to an adjoint equivalence respecting this extra structure.

And then I mused that it would be interesting to try to prove a precise theorem along these lines.

Doing this would require more formally understanding structures on categories that you can define using commutative diagrams that only impose equations at the 2-morphism — natural transformation — level. These are the ‘non-evil’ structures.

A typical example of a non-evil structure is ‘weak monoidal category’. A typical example of an evil one is ‘strict monoidal category’.

For any non-evil structure S there should be a 2-category Cat S of categories equipped with this structure, functors weakly but coherently preserving this structure, and natural transformations compatible with this structure.

We know how Cat S is defined when S is the structure ‘monoidal category’. Is there an automatic way to define Cat S starting from S? That’s the tricky part. But, I can imagine someone has already tackled it.

If this works, we get a forgetful 2-functor

F:Cat SCat

And then, we can try to prove that given a category CCat, and a way of equipping it with this extra structure, say C˜Cat S with

F(C˜)=C

and an adjoint equivalence between C and D, we can lift this adjoint equivalence to one in Cat S.

Clearly this is not the quick way to prove the result we’re talking about.

Posted by: John Baez on August 8, 2008 10:03 AM | Permalink | Reply to this

Re: This Week’s Finds in Mathematical Physics (Week 268)

That sounds a lot like the method in which a finitary algebraic theory, a first-order theory in which the axioms are all universal identities, like theories of groups or rings (but not fields), is converted into the category of all models of the theory and structure-preserving functions between them. This category of algebras has nice properties similar to the one you want: For example, every bijection between a group G and a set S induces a group structure on S, and the bijection lifts to a group isomorphism.

The right context for exploring this stuff is monads: every finitary algebraic theory induces a monad structure on Set, and the Eilenberg-Moore category is just the category of models. Is there already a categorified version of “monad” that seems plausibly relevant?

Posted by: Owen Biesel on August 9, 2008 11:04 PM | Permalink | Reply to this

Re: This Week’s Finds in Mathematical Physics (Week 268)

Yes, this can be done in the context of 2-monads. The technical name for “non-evil” in this context is flexible.

This sort of thing is discussed in

G.M. Kelly and Stephen Lack, Monoidal functors generated by adjunctions, with applications to transport of structure, Fields Institute Communications 43:319-340, 2004.

also available here. This also deals with transport of structure along adjunctions, not just adjoint equivalences.

Posted by: Steve Lack on August 12, 2008 7:37 AM | Permalink | Reply to this

Re: This Week’s Finds in Mathematical Physics (Week 268)

In short: Frobenius algebras are lurking all over in physics, logic and quantum logic. There should be some unified explanation of what’s going on! Do you have any ideas?

I have tried to talk about this at various times here, but possibly never got close enough to the abstract truth to resonate with anyone else.

The latest refinement of what I got at for a long while was to relate it to weak resolutions of the point:

the walking Frobenius monad is weakly equivalent to the point

(if we disregard units at least, with them the statement is more subtle)

Here I mean the 2-category

- with a single object

- with 1-morphisms generated from a single endomorphism on that object

- with 2-morphisms generated from

a) triangles going from two copies of that 1-cell generator to one of them

b) and triangles going the other way round

- modulo the relations which make the triangles among themselves an associative product and coassociative coproduct and satisfy the Frobenius property with each other.

(So for the moment I am talking about a 2-category without unit 1-morphisms).

This 2-category is weakly equivalent to the point: the Frobenius property says precisely that all possible ways to go from a sequence of n generating 1-cells to a sequence of m generating 1-cells using the triangles and co-triangles are equal.

Back then, I tried to get at that using the notion of ambidextrous adjunctions: it seems there is a sense in which an ambidextrous adjunction is the “real” notion of weak equivalence: two objects related by an ambidextrous adjunction need not be equivalent. But still, somehow paths going back and forth between them run in a contractible space. Somehow. The monad generated from an ambidextrous adjunction is Frobenius.

Posted by: Urs Schreiber on August 7, 2008 12:27 PM | Permalink | Reply to this

Re: This Week’s Finds in Mathematical Physics (Week 268)

Ahm, sorry, there is one more condition one needs for what I said, namely that separability condition. Sorry, more later. Have to run now.

Posted by: Urs Schreiber on August 7, 2008 12:33 PM | Permalink | Reply to this

Re: This Week’s Finds in Mathematical Physics (Week 268)

Urs wrote:

Have to run now.

Sneaking out the door just when it gets tough?

Seriously: there are two famous ways for a 2-category to be ‘trivial’. One is being equivalent to the terminal 2-category. (By ‘equivalent’ I mean the sensible weak notion, not the silly strict one. Some people prefer the term ‘bi-equivalent’.) Another is having a contractible nerve.

The first property implies the second. The second property implies the first for 2-groupoids, but not general 2-categories.

As I sketched in week173, the walking adjoint equivalence is a 2-groupoid that’s contractible in both senses. I explained how how to see this geometrically: its nerve is homotopy equivalent to a 3-ball, and thus a point.

The walking equivalence is also a 2-groupoid, but it’s not equivalent to the terminal 2-category. We can see this geometrically too: its nerve is homotopy equivalent to a 2-sphere.

Maybe you are trying to say that while the walking ambidextrous adjunction is not equivalent to the terminal 2-category, its nerve is contractible.

That’s my best attempt to make sense of what you said!

I don’t know if it’s true, but it can be proved or disproved by drawing the nerve and seeing what it looks like.

But just before you ran away, you added an interesting extra twist: what nice condition on an ambidextrous adjunction guarantees that one or both of the resulting Frobenius monads are separable?

Perhaps we need to add such a condition to the walking ambidextrous adjunction to make its nerve contractible!

Posted by: John Baez on August 7, 2008 1:25 PM | Permalink | Reply to this

Re: This Week’s Finds in Mathematical Physics (Week 268)

Maybe you are trying to say that while the walking ambidextrous adjunction is not equivalent to the terminal 2-category, its nerve is contractible.

I didn’t talk about the walking ambidextrous adjunction but about the walking Frobenius monad being equivalent to the point. I haven’t thought about the ambijunction itself from this point of view.

what nice condition on an ambidextrous adjunction guarantees that one or both of the resulting Frobenius monads are separable?

The condition is that the ambijunction is “special”, i.e. that it is a special ambidextrous adjunction.

The thing is that

a) the Frobenius identity corresponds to the fusion move for 2d triangulations

b) the separability / specialness to the bubble move

These two moves are sufficient to relate any two 2d triangulations rel boundary. This is the reason why Frobenius algebras appear in state sum models. Accordingly, they are sufficient to make any two parallel 2-morphisms in the walking Frobenius monad equal.

Posted by: Urs Schreiber on August 7, 2008 3:15 PM | Permalink | Reply to this

Re: This Week’s Finds in Mathematical Physics (Week 268)

Is there a lesson to be learned from the difference between adjoint equivalences and equivalences? Unless I’m mistaken, the definition of equivalence is officially non-evil, but it’s still not the best thing. The weird thing for me is that I’ve always liked the concept of adjoint equivalence better than that of equivalence (not knowing till now that they weren’t equivalence in general 2-categories), but short of analyzing the homotopy type of their walking versions, I still can’t put my finger on why it’s better.

It would be great if the definition of equivalence violated a more subtle general rule than “don’t be evil”. Does it? I’m tempted to say the problem is with the implicit existential quantifier in the word “isomorphism”. But it seems easy enough to get rid of that by adding the inverses to the homomorphisms as part of the data, so I guess I’m stuck. Something like “only add one piece of data at a time, and when you do also be sure to X” is what I have in mind.

Any ideas?

Posted by: James on August 8, 2008 12:45 PM | Permalink | Reply to this

Re: This Week’s Finds in Mathematical Physics (Week 268)

James wrote:

Is there a lesson to be learned from the difference between adjoint equivalences and equivalences? Unless I’m mistaken, the definition of equivalence is officially non-evil, but it’s still not the best thing. The weird thing for me is that I’ve always liked the concept of adjoint equivalence better than that of equivalence […] but short of analyzing the homotopy type of their walking versions, I still can’t put my finger on why it’s better.

We don’t really need to take homotopy types of nerves to say what’s going on here. We can say it a different way — which may or may not make you feel more enlightened.

Namely: there’s a little category called ‘the walking isomorphism’: two objects and an isomorphism between them. This category is equivalent to ‘the walking object’: the category with just one object and its identity morphism.

This is a powerfully precise way of saying that “having two things with an isomorphism between them is just like having one thing”.

To see this, let 1 be the walking object and let Iso be the walking isomorphism. Then our equivalence

1 Iso

automatically gives an equivalence

hom(1 ,C)hom(Iso,C)

for any category C. Of course

hom(1 ,C)C

On the other hand, hom(Iso,C) is the category of ‘pairs of objects in C equipped with an isomorphism between them’.

So, the category of ‘pairs of objects in C equipped with an isomorphism between them’ is equivalent to C.

This nicely formalizes the idea that having two things with an isomorphism between them is just like having one thing!

On the other hand, look what happens when we go up to 2-categories.

Let 1 be the 2-category with one object, its identity morphism, and its identity 2-morphism. And let Equiv be the walking equivalence: the 2-category consisting of two objects and an equivalence between them.

We might think that 1 was equivalent to Equiv, but it’s not true!

So, when we’re in a 2-category — e.g. Cat — having two things with an equivalence between them is not just like having one thing.

On the other hand, let AdEquiv be the ‘walking adjoint equivalence’. Then we have

1 AdEquiv

so for any 2-category

Chom(1 ,C)hom(AdEquiv,C)

So: having two things and an adjoint equivalence between them is just like having one thing.

Technical note: here I’m using the sensibly weakened concept of equivalence between 2-categories, which some people call ‘biequivalence’.

Puzzle: I said that the equivalence

Chom(Iso,C)

meant having one object in C was just like having two objects in C and an isomorphism between them. But later I said the concept of equivalence was in some sense defective: having two things and an equivalence between them is not just like having one thing!

So: is having C and hom(Iso,C) just like having C, or not?

Posted by: John Baez on August 8, 2008 4:28 PM | Permalink | Reply to this

Re: This Week’s Finds in Mathematical Physics (Week 268)

Thanks. That’s interesting, but I guess I hoping for something closer to the syntactic level, something along the lines of “First make all existential quantifiers part of the structure, and then if you can state a relation in terms of your structure, you should”.

For example, what does it mean for C to be equivalent to D? One definition is that we have two functors f,g such that fg1 C and gf1 D. But there are s hiding in the s, so we should really add structure. Then we get the data of a map α:fg1 C, a map β:gf1 D, and their inverses α 1 and β 1 . So now we’ve converted what used to be properties on f and g into structure. But now that we have that structure, it’s possible to state the triangle axioms, so (by the principle above) we should! Then we have the concept of adjoint equivalence.

Is this principle a reasonable way of understanding why equivalence is not as good as adjoint equivalence? (It seems very close to the requirement that all homotopies be contractible.) If so, what is its most natural general formulation?

Posted by: James on August 10, 2008 7:29 AM | Permalink | Reply to this

Re: This Week’s Finds in Mathematical Physics (Week 268)

James wrote:

That’s interesting, but I guess I hoping for something closer to the syntactic level, something along the lines of “First make all existential quantifiers part of the structure, and then if you can state a relation in terms of your structure, you should”.

Okay. This motto seems to consist of two separate parts. I was focusing on this part:

“…then if you can state a relation in terms of your structure, you should.”

In topology this shows up in the recipe for ‘killing homotopy groups’, which says: “whenever you see a map from S j into your space X, use this to glue on an (j+1 )-disk.” This makes the jth homotopy group of your space trivial. It creates an enormous (j+1 )st homotopy group, which you can then go ahead and kill by the same method, if you want.

Translated into n-category language, this recipe says “whenever you see two j-morphisms f,g:xy, throw in an (j+1 )-morphism α:fg.” We can do this starting with whatever j we want and working our way up. When we’re working with n-categories, and j reaches n, a (j+1 )-morphism is the same as an equation, and we can stop there.

(All equations between two fixed n-morphisms are automatically equal — so all the higher-dimensional holes are filled in by definition.)

All this sounds a bit complicated, but it’s actually a way of making an n-categorical structure as boring as possible. We do it when we don’t want complications: when we want a bunch of things to be equivalent whenever possible. This is the sense in which an adjoint equivalence is less complicated than an equivalence.

The other part of your motto:

“First make all existential quantifiers part of the structure…”

is another important aspect of the category-theorists’ worldview, but perhaps logically separate. Simply put: knowing that something exists is not nearly as useful as having it in your hands.

Somehow combining these mottos can lead us to the definition of adjoint equivalence.

By the way — someone should try my puzzle!

Posted by: John Baez on August 10, 2008 10:17 AM | Permalink | Reply to this

Re: This Week’s Finds in Mathematical Physics (Week 268)

Good. Thanks. I learned about the -removing principle a long time ago but didn’t know about the state-whatever-axioms-as-you-can principle. It’s tempting to call old-fashioned equivalence an under-achiever, what with it just sitting there leaving extra axioms unstated. I’m also tempted to say that “equivalence” should be redefined to be adjoint equivalence. This shouldn’t be a problem, because they were the same anyway in CAT. Maybe 2-category-theorists would object, but hey, they probably still call themselves bicategory-theorists.

By the way, do you know when this distinction between equivalence and adjoint equivalence was first noticed?

Regarding the puzzle, I’m not sure I understand the question. Are you asking whether C is adjoint equivalent to hom(Iso,C)?

Posted by: James on August 10, 2008 2:04 PM | Permalink | Reply to this

Re: This Week’s Finds in Mathematical Physics (Week 268)

I think this has more or less been settled, but I would characterize the difference between equivalence and adjoint equivalence as this:

  • being an equivalence is a perfectly good property of a morphism f:AB in a 2-category
  • but if you are interested in the structure rather than the property, then you should use adjoint equivalences

If f:AB is an equivalence in a 2-category then it can be made into an adjoint equivalence.

Posted by: Steve Lack on August 12, 2008 7:26 AM | Permalink | Reply to this

Re: This Week’s Finds in Mathematical Physics (Week 268)

I never quite got to the main point when explaining the work of Coecke, Pavlovic and Vicary. Maybe this addition will help:

So, the category with:

  • commutative separable complex Frobenius algebras as objects;
  • algebra homomorphisms as morphisms

is equivalent to FinSet op. This means we can find the category of finite sets — or at least its opposite, which is just as good — lurking inside the world of Frobenius algebras!

Coecke, Pavlovic and Vicary explore the ramifications of this result for quantum mechanics, using Frobenius algebras that are Hilbert spaces instead of mere vector spaces. Taking a Hilbert space and making it into a commutative separable Frobenius algebra is the same making it into a commutative separable Frobenius algebra is the same as equipping it with an orthonormal basis. There’s no general way to duplicate quantum states - “you can’t clone a quantum” - but if you only want to duplicate states lying in a chosen orthonormal basis you can do it. So, you can think of commutative separable Frobenius algebras as “classical data types”, which let you duplicate information. The result I just sketched shows that such Frobenius algebras are secretly just like finite sets. So, we now see how to describe finite sets starting from Hilbert spaces and introducing a notion of “classical data type” formulated purely in terms of quantum concepts! - that is, linear algebra.

Posted by: John Baez on August 7, 2008 1:26 PM | Permalink | Reply to this

Re: This Week’s Finds in Mathematical Physics (Week 268)

John, thanks for explaining all this so carefully. So indeed, in FdHilb orthonormal basis and commutative dagger Frobenius algebras are exactly the same thing, and the latter captures classicality in terms of actual capabilities (copying/deleting) while the first just gives us the set of classical data in a somewhat boring manner merely by providing elements.

But really interesting things happen if you look for these commutative dagger Frobenius algebras in other categories that one might want to use for modeling certain fragments of quantum theory.

In Rel, even on the 2-element set, there are already two “incompatible” and even “complementary” commutative dagger Frobenius algebras! (typical examples of complementarity are position/momentum or spin Z/spin X) These are:

δg = 0 ~ (0,0); 1~(1,1)
εg = 0 ~ *; 1 ~ *

δr = 0 ~ {(0,0),(1,1)}; 1~{(0,1),(1,0)}
εr = 0 ~ *

The first one is the one which one expects but the second one is a somewhat mysterious creature.

Now, recall that in TWF251 John discussed Rob Spekkens’ toy model and mentioned that it would be good to have a categorical understanding of that. It turns out that the way to understand this model is exactly in terms of commutative dagger Frobenius algebras. What corresponds to bases in his model are a pair of the above mentioned mysterious (δr, εr) on the four element set. There are three ways of partitioning a four elemement set in two giving rise to the X, Y and Z directions.

A paper by my student Bill Edwards and I on this should be at the arXiv tomorrow but here’s already a version of Toy quantum categories.

Posted by: bob on August 7, 2008 4:21 PM | Permalink | Reply to this

Bob’s paper

That’s a very interesting paper, Bob. We have been looking at the relation between mutually unbiased bases and braid group representations using finite fields. The p=3 case is associated to mass quantum numbers, in analogy to spin for p=2, although in order to understand mass one does need to consider a lot more structure (monoidality has to go, for starters).

Posted by: Kea on August 8, 2008 3:35 AM | Permalink | Reply to this

Re: This Week’s Finds in Mathematical Physics (Week 268)

So indeed, in FdHilb orthonormal basis and commutative dagger Frobenius algebras are exactly the same thing

Jamie and I have discussed this before after he explained it to me, so perhaps he can correct me if I am confused, but don’t you really mean separable commutative dagger Frobenius algebras? My understanding is that to specify a commutative daggger Frobenius algebra, one needs to specify the idempotents e i and the scale factors λ i=g(e i,e i) (if the algebra is separable, these factors are unity). So the information contained in a general commutative dagger Frobenius algebra is not just an orthonormal basis e i, but a weighted orthonormal basis. Those weightings are precisely the things which give us the TQFT invariants for a genus g surface:

(1)Z(Σ g)= iλ i g1 .

Perhaps I am not on the same boat as far as what the morphisms are required to be: I am working in the paradigm where a morphism of commutative dagger Frobenius algebras is defined as a morphism of Frobenius algebras (i.e. not just a morphism of algebras).

Posted by: Bruce Bartlett on August 8, 2008 11:39 AM | Permalink | Reply to this

Re: This Week’s Finds in Mathematical Physics (Week 268)

You indeed want the comultiplication to be isometric i.e. δ o δ - or ‘special’ as it is sometimes called. I tend to forget to mention that since in QM terms this merely means physical realisability - if one believes ‘unitary = realisable’.

Posted by: bob on August 8, 2008 12:24 PM | Permalink | Reply to this

Re: This Week’s Finds in Mathematical Physics (Week 268)

Bob wrote:

I tend to forget to mention that since in QM terms this merely means physical realisability - if one believes ‘unitary = realisable’

Well this increases the confusion even more… because a commutative dagger Frobenius algebra is exactly the image of the circle under a unitary 2d TQFT, and hence certainly realizable as a genuine ‘physical model’. However I guess you are talking about ‘unitary’ and ‘realizable’ in quantum computing terms. Mmm… it might be a bit confusing if different parts of the quantum world use the word unitary in different ways. In the TQFT paradigm, unitary simply means ‘preserves duals’ (as opposed to ‘every morphism gets sent to a unitary operator’) so the equation δ δ=1 is not required since it is not part of that requirement (nor does it hold in 2Cob).

John wrote:

Do you know the cute string diagram proof that a morphism of Frobenius algebras (i.e. not just their underlying algebras) is automatically an isomorphism?

No I didn’t before you asked me… but is it the one where you define A 1 by ‘bending’ the cylinder round, and then prove A 1 A=1 by ‘squeezing’ the A’s off the cylinder like toothpaste? :-) Yeps that is pretty cool, thanks for alerting me to this!

Eric wrote:

I’m not sure if this is relevant, but given a complete set of idempotents, we can define a nice abstract graded differential algebra on them. From there, we could construct a graph…

Yes it is all relevant. One day it will all form part of a nice coherent picture… but as far as my expertise is concerned at this stage I can only guess the following concepts will/have come into the mix: quivers, coherent sheaves, cohomology, sigma model, fermions, Poincare duality. It is entirely possible that Kevin Costello has already attained Shangri-la on these issues :-)

Posted by: Bruce Bartlett on August 8, 2008 10:03 PM | Permalink | Reply to this

Re: This Week’s Finds in Mathematical Physics (Week 268)

Bob said:

I tend to forget to mention that since in QM terms this merely means physical realisability - if one believes ‘unitary = realisable’.

I didn’t know that! Can you give a bit more of an explanation?

Posted by: Jamie Vicary on August 9, 2008 2:17 PM | Permalink | Reply to this

Re: This Week’s Finds in Mathematical Physics (Week 268)

Bruce wrote:

Perhaps I am not on the same boat as far as what the morphisms are required to be: I am working in the paradigm where a morphism of commutative dagger Frobenius algebras is defined as a morphism of Frobenius algebras (i.e. not just a morphism of algebras).

Do you know the cute string diagram proof that a morphism of Frobenius algebras (i.e. not just their underlying algebras) is automatically an isomorphism?

I ask because I only learned it recently, and found it surprising at first. That’s why I mentioned it in week268.

So, your paradigm gives a groupoid of commutative dagger Frobenius algebras. To get the category of finite sets starting from Frobenius algebras, one needs another paradigm.

Frobenius algebras are defined by a PROP that happens to be compact (viewed as a symmetric monoidal category). I hear that for any sort of algebraic gadget defined by a PROP that is compact, the category of these gadgets is actually a groupoid. I haven’t checked this yet.

Posted by: John Baez on August 8, 2008 3:47 PM | Permalink | Reply to this

Re: This Week’s Finds in Mathematical Physics (Week 268)

I hear that for any sort of algebraic gadget defined by a PROP that is compact, the category of these gadgets is actually a groupoid. I haven’t checked this yet.

This sounds familiar. It reminds me of a general result: that the restriction of a lax transformation between homomorphisms of bicategories F,G:BC, to the (locally full) sub-bicategory Ladj(B) whose 1-cells are left adjoints in B, is a strong transformation. In fact, I’m thinking that the result stated above is a special case of this general result.

Thinking out loud here: we are considering monoidal categories as one-object bicategories, strong monoidal functors as homomorphisms, and monoidal transformations as lax transformations. To say that a monoidal category B is compact is to say that Ladj(B)=B on the nose.

Okay, now that I’ve convinced myself with these mutterings, I might as well run through it in this special case. So the claim is that if B is any compact monoidal category (not just a PROP) and C is monoidal, and F,G:BC are (strong) monoidal functors, and θ:FG is a monoidal transformation, then the component θ(b) is invertible at each object b of B, so that θ is an invertible monoidal transformation.

Indeed, the inverse to θ(b):FbGb is constructed in just the way you’d expect: as the composite

Gb1 ηGbF(b *)Fb1 θ(b *)1 GbG(b *)Fbε1 Fb

where η and ε are the evident unit and counit. An easy string diagram argument, parallel to the neat thing you pointed out for morphisms of Frobenius algebras, shows that this is indeed the inverse.

Posted by: Todd Trimble on August 8, 2008 10:05 PM | Permalink | Reply to this

Re: This Week’s Finds in Mathematical Physics (Week 268)

Great, Todd! Deriving it from something even more general… I’m impressed!

Posted by: John Baez on August 9, 2008 3:18 PM | Permalink | Reply to this

Re: This Week’s Finds in Mathematical Physics (Week 268)

I’m not sure if this is relevant, but given a complete set of idempotents, i.e.

ie i=1 ,

we can define a nice abstract graded differential algebra on them.

From there, we could construct a graph whose nodes are e i and whose edges are defined by

e ij=e ide je j.

This gives a noncommutative discrete geometry on the algebra, which might tell you something.

Posted by: Eric on August 8, 2008 4:06 PM | Permalink | Reply to this

Re: This Week’s Finds in Mathematical Physics (Week 268)

Bruce said:

My understanding is that to specify a commutative daggger Frobenius algebra, one needs to specify the idempotents e i and the scale factors λ i=g(e i,e i) (if the algebra is separable, these factors are unity)

This isn’t quite true — for the Frobenius algebra to be separable, the complex numbers λ i only need to have unit magnitude. They don’t have to be real.

He also said:

Those weightings are precisely the things which give us the TQFT invariants for a genus g surface:

(1)Z(Σ g)=Σ iλ i g1

I think we actually end up summing λ i 2 (g1 ). After all, the handle operator multiplies the ith subspace by λ i 2 . We could replace each λ i with its magnitude λ i and we’d get an isomorphic TQFT, but the TQFTs themselves have this extra degree of freedom. This is why I keep going on about complex numbers rather than just real weightings!

Posted by: Jamie Vicary on August 9, 2008 2:28 PM | Permalink | Reply to this

Re: This Week’s Finds in Mathematical Physics (Week 268)

Bleg: I vaguely recall a Seiberg-Moore paper that described a 2D TQFT that had various 6j-type things associated to critical points of surfaces from the early 1990s, but I can’t seem to find the article on the arXiv. Does anyone else remember this?

In regard to Frobenius algebras, our paper CCEKS will appear in the Lin memorial issue. I’ll update the arXiv version soon (stupid typos in the example calculations). These ideas seem to work for Frobenius algebra objects in any category. I am not sure to what extent the 2 and 3-cocycles help define 2- or 3- categorical versions thereof. My head gets too fuzzy when I think about these things.

Posted by: Scott Carter on August 7, 2008 5:58 PM | Permalink | Reply to this

Re: This Week’s Finds in Mathematical Physics (Week 268)

Scott wrote:

Bleg: I vaguely recall a Seiberg-Moore paper that described a 2D TQFT that had various 6j-type things associated to critical points of surfaces from the early 1990s, but I can’t seem to find the article on the arXiv.

Are you talking about the super-famous paper by Moore and Seiberg which got solutions of the pentagon and hexagon equations from rational conformal field theories? That’s:

  • G. Moore and N. Seiberg, Polynomial Equations for Rational Conformal Field Theories, Phys. Lett. 212B (1988) 451.

They wrote a bunch of other papers together, too.

My head gets too fuzzy when I think about these things.

Shave it! It worked for these folks:

Posted by: John Baez on August 7, 2008 8:49 PM | Permalink | Reply to this

Re: This Week’s Finds in Mathematical Physics (Week 268)

I guess there is not an ArXiv version. I think that was the paper.

My wife is usually my barber. When she neglects that job, I do shave it. But this doesn’t address the fog that is inside my head ;-)

Posted by: Scott Carter on August 7, 2008 9:13 PM | Permalink | Reply to this

Re: This Week’s Finds in Mathematical Physics (Week 268)

John, I’m glad you’re interested in this! Thanks for the great summary, there are a lot of references in there I’ll have to follow up.

You say that “every commutative separable Frobenius algebra over the complex numbers looks like ”. I didn’t know this!

I think it’s a bit confusing using this adjective ‘separable’ to mean one thing for Frobenius algebras, that comultiplication followed by multiplication gives the identity, and something else for mere algebras, where it’s a property of semisimple algebras. What’s silly about this is that it’s quite possible to give a separable algebra a Frobenius form which turns it into a non-separable Frobenius algebra.

But I guess it must be true that every separable Frobenius algebra has a separable underlying algebra, which would explain the terminology, and your statement about commutative separable Frobenius algebras. Can someone prove this to me? I’d be happy with a proof of this special case. Also, this leads me to suspect that a commutative algebra can be made into a separable Frobenius algebra in at most one way — does anybody know about this?

You say that “taking a Hilbert space and making it into a commutative separable Frobenius algebra is the same as equipping it with an orthonormal basis”, but I don’t think this is quite true. In fact, I can prove it’s not true — the inner product of the Hilbert space plays no part in the definition of a commutative separable Frobenius algebra, so if you found an example where what you’re saying is true, you could just choose a different inner product under which the basis isn’t orthonormal any more.

I think the correct result is that, on a finite-dimensional complex vector space, choosing a commutative separable Frobenius algebra is equivalent to choosing a basis. There’s no ‘orthonormal’ any more, because that doesn’t mean anything for a mere vector space. To get the basis from the commutative separable Frobenius algebra, look at all the vectors that are perfectly copied by the comultiplication. To get the commutative separable Frobenius algebra from the basis, choose the unique one that has a comultiplication which copies your chosen basis elements!

Given a basis for a complex vector space, there’s a unique inner product that makes that basis orthonormal. Let’s say we choose that inner product for the vector space that has our commutative separable Frobenius algebra on it. How will we know when we’ve chosen the correct inner product? Because this is the unique inner product for which the Frobenius comultiplication is adjoint to the algebra multiplication! We’re allowed to talk about adjoints because we’ve chosen an inner product, and since we’re in a finite-dimensional space it’s guaranteed that adjoints will exist.

Given this, it should be pretty believable that, as Bob said above in different words, for a finite-dimensional Hilbert space, choosing a commutative separable Frobenius algebra, for which the multiplication is adjoint to the comultiplication, is equivalent to choosing an orthonormal basis.

So far, the star of the show has been this separability property of our commutative Frobenius algebras, which seems to be doing the impressive job of ensuring that the underlying algebra is semisimple. Bob Coecke, Dusko Pavlovic and I recently found that there’s another neat way to ensure this: for a Frobenius algebra on a Hilbert space, require that the comultiplication is adjoint to the multiplication! We call these ‘-Frobenius algebras’, because the adjoint to a linear map f:AB is often written f :BA. The Frobenius algebra doesn’t have to be commutative for this to work, and it doesn’t have to be separable. (Of course, the underlying algebra is separable. This is why it’s confusing using ‘separable’ as an adjective for Frobenius algebras!) However, for the ‘dagger’ to make sense, it has to be a Frobenius algebra on a Hilbert space, not just a vector space. So, the motto is -Frobenius algebras are semisimple.

But, what if we had Hilbert space H equipped with a -Frobenius algebra that is commutative? Then we’d have a commutative semisimple algebra on the Hilbert space. One way to get a basis out of this is to find all the vectors ϕ:H which are copied by the comultiplication m :HHH, satisfying m ϕ=ϕϕ. These define a basis, and there’s a fun picture-based proof that this basis is orthogonal. Have a go! (There’s an easy proof in the case that our -Frobenius algebra is separable, but we’re not assuming that here.)

However, these basis elements won’t be normalised in general. So, for a finite-dimensional Hilbert space, choosing a commutative -Frobenius algebra, for which the multiplication is adjoint to the comultiplication, is equivalent to choosing an orthogonal basis. The basis elements will be normalised exactly when the commutative -Frobenius algebra is separable.

Posted by: Jamie Vicary on August 9, 2008 2:14 PM | Permalink | Reply to this

Re: This Week’s Finds in Mathematical Physics (Week 268)

A few preliminary comments…

Jamie wrote:

You say that “every commutative separable Frobenius algebra over the complex numbers looks like ”. I didn’t know this!

I think the proof breaks down into steps like this. It’s really a fact about algebras, not Frobenius algebras.

First, assume you have an associative algebra over any field of characteristic zero. Then this algebra is strongly separable iff it is finite-dimensional and semisimple — see the paper by Aguiar that I cited in week268. Recall that an algebra is strongly separable iff the bilinear form g(a,b)=tr(L aL b) is nondegenerate. It’s semisimple iff has no nontrivial nilpotent ideals.

Next, use the version of the Artin–Wedderburn theorem that says any finite-dimensional semisimple algebra over the complex numbers is a finite direct sum of complex matrix algebras.

(Alas, all the statements of the Artin–Wedderburn theorem that I can find online are so general that it takes real work to see how this special case follows. If you can grab a decent intro text on algebra, it should have this result, which is sometimes just called ‘Wedderburn’s theorem’ — Artin is the guy to blame for generalizing it almost beyond recognition. But beware, there’s another theorem called Wedderburn’s theorem, about finite division rings.)

Then, notice that a finite direct sum of complex matrix algebras is commutative iff it is a finite direct sum of copies of .

I would appreciate more comments from algebraists about this circle of results!

I think it’s a bit confusing using this adjective ‘separable’ to mean one thing for Frobenius algebras, that comultiplication followed by multiplication gives the identity, and something else for mere algebras, where it’s a property of semisimple algebras.

I agree. And I’m afraid I may have started this annoying usage.

I wanted to use ‘special’, the way you do — but then I saw that Schweigert et al use that to mean something slightly different, which agrees in Vect (I think) but not all monoidal categories!

What’s silly about this is that it’s quite possible to give a separable algebra a Frobenius form which turns it into a non-separable Frobenius algebra.

Right. To add to the confusion, the relevant property for algebras is actually called ‘strongly separable’, as defined above — for most algebraists, ‘separable’ means something else, as explained in Aguiar’s paper!

R. Rosebrugh, N. Sabadini and R.F.C. Walters seem to use use ‘commutative separable algebra’ to mean a commutative Frobenius monoid in any symmetric monoidal category. This was my excuse for speaking of ‘separable Frobenius algebras’.

To show just how little agreement there is about these terms, Wikipedia defined ‘Frobenius algebra’ as an algebra with the property that it admits a nondegenerate bilinear form with g(ab,c)=g(a,bc), instead of an algebra equipped with such a bilinear form. At least, they did before I changed it!

So, maybe we just need to step in and clear things up, with proper respect for tradition but also a certain boldness. People studying ordinary algebras have their own terminology which we should interfere with — like ‘separable’ and ‘strongly separable’. But the terminology for Frobenius algebras may require a bit of reform. Maybe I should start by rewriting week268 to call Frobenius algebras with this property:

‘special’ instead of ‘separable’.

But maybe we should read the Frobenius algebra literature more deeply before jumping in and messing things up more.

Posted by: John Baez on August 9, 2008 3:02 PM | Permalink | Reply to this

Re: This Week’s Finds in Mathematical Physics (Week 268)

John said:

You say that “every commutative separable Frobenius algebra over the complex numbers looks like ℂ⊕⋯⊕ℂ”. I didn’t know this!

[…] It’s really a fact about algebras, not Frobenius algebras.

I’m really confused now! The result we’re talking about definitely has to do with Frobenius algebras, inasmuch as it’s got the word “Frobenius” in it. I suppose you mean that the proof relies on a fact about plain old algebras — but we’re going to have to connect this fact to Frobenius algebras somehow, which surely won’t be trivial.

Now I’m worried that when you wrote “commutative separable Frobenius algebra”, the “separable” wasn’t being used in its comultiplication-followed-by-multiplication-gives-the-identity meaning! Can you confirm which meaning you meant?

Recall that an algebra is strongly separable iff the bilinear form g(a,b)=tr(L aL b) is nondegenerate.

OK. Playing with some pictures, I reckon that if a Frobenius algebra has comultiplication followed by multiplication giving the identity, then tr(L aL b) will indeed be nondegenerate. It confuses me that you don’t explicitly say this… surely it’s a necessary part of the proof!

I wanted to use ‘special’, the way you do — but then I saw that Schweigert et al use that to mean something slightly different, which agrees in Vect (I think) but not all monoidal categories!

I suppose you’re talking about their definition on page 23. They define “special” to mean that comultiplication followed by multiplication is proportional to the identity — but surely that’s not going to be equivalent to what we’