Why don’t arbitrary composition algebras work? What is it about normed division algebras that’s necessary for doing these constructions?
Good question! A composition algebra is one which satisfies
without requiring to be positive definite. It’s a classic theorem that the only real composition algebras have dimension 1, 2, 4, and 8, just like normed division algebras. In fact, the only real composition algebras are either the normed division algebras for which the norm is positive definite, or the split composition algebras, for which the norm has signature , where is the dimension of our composition algebra.
I think the answer to your question is: they do work, but not for physical applications. In dimensions , vectors are built from Hermitian matrices over . This is nice, because determinant gives the norm:
If is normed of dimension , you’ll see the above formula gives signature . If is split, it gives a split signature!
Most of the formulas (all of them, I bet — but I’d need to check) would still work in the split case, so you’d still get vectors, spinors and intertwiners, all for spacetimes with split signature. These might be worth thinking about, but they’re not the spacetimes one usually considers for superstrings or more general membranes.
[John Baez: I’m still stuck inside the computer here, so I can’t reply like a normal person. Here’s an explanatory remark for the lurking layfolk: ‘spacetimes with split signature’ is jargon for spacetimes that have an equal number of space and time dimensions! These have mathematically beautiful properties — but few physicists work on them, for an obvious reason: nobody wants to be called a ‘low-down dirty two-timing rat’.]
Since it’s now become possible again for me to post comments, I’ll celebrate by trying to transfer some comments from the n-Forum to this thread.
Thanks, John and John for these results. This is very pleasing.
The 3-’s rule implies that the Poincaré superalgebra has a nontrivial 3-cocycle when spacetime has dimension 3, 4, 6, or 10.
Similarly, the 4-’s rule implies that the Poincaré superalgebra has a nontrivial 4-cocycle when spacetime has dimension 4, 5, 7, or 11.
Very nice! That’s what one would have hoped for.
Can you maybe see aspects of what makes these cocycles special compared to other cocycles that the Poincaré super Lie algebra has? What other cocycles that involve the spinors are there? Maybe there are a bunch of generic cocycles and then some special ones that depend on the dimension?
Is there any indication from the math to which extent and are the first two steps in a longer sequence of sequences? I might expect another sequence and corresponding to the fivebrane and the ninebrane. In other words, what happens when you look at -matrices with values in a division algebra for values of larger than 2 and 4?
Here a general comment related to the short exact sequences of higher Lie algebras that you mention:
properly speaking what matters is that these sequences are -categorical exact, namely are fibration sequences/fiber sequences in an -category of -algebras.
The cocycle itself is a morphism of -algebras
and the extension it classifies is the homotopy fiber of this
Forming in turn the homotopy fiber of that extension yields the loop space object of and thereby the fibration sequence
The fact that using the evident representatives of the equivalence classes of these objects the first three terms here also form an exact sequence of chain complexes is conceptually really a coincidence of little intrinsic meaning.
One way to demonstrate that we really have an -exact sequence here is to declare that the -category of -algebras is that presented by the standard model structure on dg-algebras on . In there we can show that is homotopy exact by observing that this is almost a fibrant diagram, in that the second morphism is a fibration, the first object is fibrant and the other two objects are almost fibrant: their Chevalley–Eilenberg algebras are almost Sullivan algebras in that they are quasi-free. The only failure of fibrancy is that they don’t obey the filtration property. But one can pass to a weakly equivalent fibrant replacement for and do the analog for without really changing the nature of the problem, given how simple is. Then we see that the sequence is indeed also homotopy-exact.
This kind of discussion may not be relevant for the purposes of your article, but it does become relevant when one starts doing for instance higher gauge theory with these objects.
Here some further trivial comments on the article:
Thanks for the discussion of exact sequences, Urs. I have at times worried a lot about why one would ever be interested in “strict” exact sequences of the sort we’re using here. It’s nice to get a clear general picture of this, and I may add your comments — citing you, of course — to our paper. I guess whenever we construct a Lie -algebra by extending a Lie algebra using a cocycle, we actually get a “strict” exact sequence of the sort mentioned in our paper. But yes, I see that this is a “coincidence”.
And yes, we should talk about Fierz identities. We just forgot! And thanks for catching all those typos.
Can you maybe see aspects of what makes these cocycles special compared to other cocycles that the Poincaré super Lie algebra has? What other cocycles that involve the spinors are there? Maybe there are a bunch of generic cocycles and then some special ones that depend on the dimension?
Well, of course these cocycles are special because they come from Fierz identities that hold only in certain special dimensions, and we’ve tried to “explain” that by giving a proof using normed division algebras.
But alas, we don’t know reallly good answers to any of the questions you are asking here. Of course we’ve considered these questions. I think they are utterly fascinating. At times I’ve wanted John Huerta to do his thesis on these questions! But right now, other questions seem a bit easier, and perhaps interesting to more people. The questions you’re asking require a highly developed expertise in representation theory.
Is there any indication from the math to which extent and are the first two steps in a longer sequence of sequences? I might expect another sequence and corresponding to the fivebrane and the ninebrane.
If John Huerta gets really good at representation theory we could work out the full story, but right now we are mainly happy to see that the techniques we’re using do not give a 3-brane sequence . I.e., they do not give a ‘5-’s rule’ in all these dimensions. And that’s what one would expect, given the apparent lack of a supersymmetric 3-brane theory in 12d Minkowski spacetime.
Urs wrote:
Is there any indication from the math to which extent and are the first two steps in a longer sequence of sequences? I might expect another sequence and corresponding to the fivebrane and the ninebrane. In other words, what happens when you look at -matrices with values in a division algebra for values of larger than and ?
Aren’t the first two sequences supposed to be from the columns in Duff’s chart in the post? Is the specialness of and connected to their being and ?
David wrote:
Aren’t the first two sequences [strings in dimensions and 2-branes in dimension ] supposed to be from the columns in Duff’s chart in the post?
Yes, and you’ll see that he explicitly links this chart to the normed division algebras, but in a somewhat mysterious way, which we wanted to clarify.
Is the specialness of and connected to their being and ?
I’m not sure what you think is special about and .
I was just wondering about Urs’ fivebrane and ninebrane as in the quoted portion. He then replied about the sequence (string, fivebrane, ninebrane) of dimension .
Okay, David I get what you mean now. I think the cocycles governing Urs’ fivebrane and ninebrane are “purely bosonic”, unlike the ones John Huerta and I are considering. I now realize that’s why I’m having trouble making any connection between what Urs is talking about now and what we did. But they should be part of the same story.
In other words: I’m guessing all -brane theories involve cocycles on the Poincaré Lie superalgebra. This superalgebra is a Z/2-graded vector space with a bracket. The even part, or “bosonic part”, is an ordinary Lie algebra, namely the Lie algebra of the Poincaré group. The odd part, or “fermionic part”, is the space of spinors. I think Urs is implicitly getting cocycles on the Poincaré Lie superalgebra from cocycles on its bosonic part.
(Checking that this is possible requires a tiny calculation, which I am alas too busy to do right now).
What are cocycles on the Poincaré Lie algebra like? Well, it should include the cohomology of the rotation Lie algebra, and in fact that could even be all there is.
The Lie algebra of the rotation group has a bunch of interesting cocycles, related to Pontryagin classes.
If I’m not getting mixed up, the Lie algebra of the rotation group has a nontrivial 3-cocycle, a nontrivial 7-cocycle, a nontrivial 11-cocycle… and so on up to a certain cutoff — and if you work with rotations in high enough dimensions, you can make this cutoff as high as you like.
So, we get cocycles of degree for below a certain cutoff. These give Lie -algebras, which in turn can be used to describe the parallel transport of -branes.
Oh, good — the calculation is working — it matches Urs’ claim! I was worried until the end there.
But anyway, all this stuff is “purely bosonic”. John Huerta and I were focusing on cocycles that only exist on the Poincaré Lie superalgebra.
I will need to think about this more someday.
John wrote:
In other words: I’m guessing all p-brane theories involve cocycles on the Poincaré Lie superalgebra.
I shouldn’t get so carried away. Let me just say that some -brane theories involve cocycles on the Poincaré Lie superalgebra.
John,
there are these bosonic cocycles, but I was indeed wondering about the fermionic ones.
Take the case of the string: it is governed (in the sense we are discussing here) at least by one bosonic cocycle – the canonical 3-cocycle on – and one fermionic cocycle – the one you are discussing with John Huerta.
The super-fivebrane we know is similarly controlled by the 7-cocycle on . But shouldn’t there also be a fermionic cocycle to go with this, as with the string?
I guess you’re right: there should be a fermionic 7-cocycle, at least in 10 dimensions where Duff’s old brane scan shows a super-5-brane.

(There are newer brane scans which show many more super--brane theories, which I don’t understand yet. I like the old brane scan because it’s based on a simple recipe for constructing super--brane theories from cocycles.)
I would be very happy if the dashed horizontal lines in Duff’s brane scan came from some sort of ‘Poincaré duality’ that holds in the cohomology of the Poincaré superalgebra.
(I’m using “Poincaré” in two ways here!)
Since these horizontal lines correspond to ‘duality transformations’ it is perhaps not a completely ridiculous hope.
In other words, maybe there’s a simple way to turn a 3-cocycle into a 7-cocycle when we’re working with the 10d Poincaré superalgebra. Hmm, the numbers even seem promising here: .
How much do you believe that there are fivebranes in dimensions and ?
Hmm, the numbers even seem promising here: 7+3=10.
Sure, yes, that’s the equation which identifies the fundamental super-fivebrane as the “magnetic” object dual to the “electrical” fundamental string in 10-dimensions.
And that electric/magnetic dualiy is indeed effectively Poincaré-duality – or rather some kind of refinement of it to differential cohomology .
As you know, right? Recall the kind of discussion we once had here at the blog entry
If we use the magnetic fivebrane instead of the string to describe physics in 10-dimensions, we arrive at what is called dual heterotic string theory . Some discussion of this is at the blog entry
You ask:
How much do you believe that there are fivebranes in dimensions 7,8,10 and 14?
I believe in fundamental fivebranes in 10-dimensions, being the magnetic duals of the fundamental string.
I also believe in fivebranes as being the next -branes after the -brane that is the string.
John wrote:
Urs wrote:
Sure, yes, that’s the equation which identifies the fundamental super-fivebrane as the “magnetic” object dual to the “electrical” fundamental string in 10-dimensions.
Yeah, I knew that, but it somehow sounded different when I thought of it this way: “there’s a Fierz identity involving 3 spinors that gives a 3-cocycle on the Poincaré superalgebra, and there’s probably one involving 7 spinors that gives a 7-cocycle, and so maybe these are related by some kind of Poincaré duality in Lie superalgebra cohomology”.
Much more impressive, eh? ![]()
I know a little bit about Poincaré duality for Lie algebra cohomology but not so much for Lie superalgebras — that’s the main reason this idea seemed new and interesting.
But you’re right, maybe I can see it now beginning to boil down to the same darn thing you said!
That would be nice…
How could you classify in different fundamental theories a string theory whose objects were 5 branes? In 2 dimensions, there are very few parameters to restrict the degrees of freemdom, and get the number “5 theories”. For example, one uses relatively trivial stuff like open and closed, chiral or not, the symmetry between the right and left mode movers. Basically, it boils down on how strings attach.
But in 5 dimensions, all kinds of crazy stuff can happen. One can attach them to a number of dimensions from 0 to 5, and each border with the craziest geometries. So, how one could classify those 5 branes in different species of theory?
so maybe these are related by some kind of Poincaré duality in Lie superalgebra cohomology”.
Oh, you mean in Lie algebra cohomology? I see. Hm, so this is asking the following, I suppose:
take the Chevalley-Eilenberg dg-algebra of the super Poincaré Lie algebra in 9+1 dimensions and regard it is a model for a rational (super)space. Does this rational (super)space satisfy Poincaré duality with formal super-dimension in the sense of rational homotopy theory?
This sounds like something somebody should look into.
David wrote:
Is the specialness of and connected to their being and ?
Well, at least one has to be careful with the numerology here, as the string=-brane and membrane=-brane would not fit that pattern that you suggest.
But I think there is yet another pattern running here, where “fundamental -branes” exists for (string, fivebrane, ninebrane) whose worldvolume theory is conformal, and then one dimension higher runs the sequence of -branes whose worldvolume theory is the corresponding Chern-Simons theory (membranes, etc.).
But I have only a vague understanding of the general pattern here.
I do not know if you noticed the recent article
…we obtain general anomaly cancellation formulas of any dimension. For dimensional manifolds, our results include the gravitational anomaly cancellation formulas of Alvarez-Gaumé and Witten in dimensions 2, 6 and 10 as special cases. In dimension , we derive anomaly cancellation formulas for index gerbes. In dimension , we obtain certain results about eta invariants, which are interesting in spectral geometry.
Of course, it is well known that the eta invariants are related to the cancellation of anomalies, but here a rather complete picture is claimed for the dimensions discussed in this cafe post, some aspects of which are directly related to the work of Urs with Hisham Sati. Unfortunately the above article is dense with complicated formulas, hence hard to read; fortunately the classical formulas from Bismut, Lott, Freed and others are recalled.
As Dan Kan remarked to me after my first talk at MIT
(paraphrased): just because you have written a formula on the board doesn’t mean you have communicated with your audience.
The Wikipedia composition algebra page says there are 1-dimensional composition algebras when . Has anyone considered your construction for or 2?
What’s ‘our construction’? Lie 2-superalgebras and Lie 3-superalgebras extending the Poincaré superalgebra? No, nobody has considered this in characteristic other than 0. After all, we only revealed the construction for characteristic 0 this weekend! Math moves fast these days, but not that fast.
There’s a book that discusses composition algebras in nonzero characteristic, though: The Book of Involutions.
I am wondering what the most general abstract way would be to understand that division algebras are related to supersymmetry.
I am guessing it must be all related to the fact that the four division algebras are twistings by a 2-cocycle of the group algebras over of the groups , , and , as described in the last paragraph of John Baez: The Fano plane.
So at the bottom of it, it is all governed by and . But of course that’s also true for supersymmetry: super vector spaces are precisely the -graded real vector spaces equipped with the nontrivial symmetric monoidal structure.
How can might one pin down this similarity and relation more precisely?
And: suppose I replace here with another (abelian?) group . Then I can still talk about -graded real vector spaces and look for nontrivial symmetric braidings on them. And I can look for group 2-cocycles on the group algebras . So do I get a story completely analogous to that of supersymmetry and division algebras?
Urs wrote:
I am wondering what the most general abstract way would be to understand that division algebras are related to supersymmetry.
Me too! ![]()
I am guessing it must be all related to the fact that the four division algebras are twistings by a 2-cocycle of the group algebras over of the groups , , and , as described in the last paragraph of John Baez: The Fano plane.
I wish that were true. But this construction produces lots of algebras, not just the four normed division algebras. For example, I can get any Clifford algebra by taking the group algebra of and twisting it by a 2-cocycle.
Furthermore, the octonions are obtained by taking the group algebra of and twisting it by a 2-cochain that’s not a 2-cocycle. That’s why the octonions are nonassociative.
And if I allow myself to twist group algebras of the groups by 2-cochains that aren’t cocycles, I can get all sorts of crazy nonassociative algebras. For example: if we keep applying the Cayley-Dickson construction starting with the real numbers, we get the complex numbers, the quaternions, the octonions, the sedenions, and so on — an infinite sequence of algebras! After the quaternions, they’re all nonassociative. And they can all be obtained by twisting the group algebras of the groups by certain 2-cochains.
I would love it if these nonassociative algebras were all related to supersymmetry, but I don’t see any sign of that.
From the papers John Huerta and I have written, it seems quite clear that supersymmetric field theories beloved by physicists have a lot to do with composition algebras. The real numbers, complex numbers, quaternions and octonions are all composition algebras. And, the properties of composition algebras, such as the alternative law, give all the cocycles that we need to construct superstring theories in dimensions 3,4,6, and 10, and super-2-brane theories in dimensions 4,5,7, and 11.
As further evidence for the importance of composition algebras, note that besides the real numbers, complex numbers, quaternions and octonions, there are precisely three more composition algebras over : the split complex numbers, the split quaternions and the split octonions. And, I believe we get classical superstring and super-2-brane Lagrangians from these as well! These theories live in spacetimes with more than one time dimension — so people don’t think about these theories very much. But, I think they exist.
So, I believe we should think about composition algebras and their special properties. Anyone who likes composition algebras and category theory should read this:
It gives a purely diagrammatic proof that the dimension of a composition algebra must be 1, 2, 4, or 8!
It gives a purely diagrammatic proof that the dimension of a composition algebra must be 1, 2, 4, or 8!
Unfortunately it does not: there are no diagrams, string or otherwise, in that short paper. It would be nice to have some.
Was it the next reference from TWF169 that was intended - Dominik Boos’s Ein tensorkategorieller Zugang zum Satz von Hurwitz? Note that the link in TWF is outdated.
Yeah, sorry — David’s right. Both papers study the same subject using a lot of the same ideas, but Boos, the student of Rost, explains the proof using string diagrams. For people who already understand string diagrams and tensor categories, the fun starts on page 36. You don’t need to understand German: just look at the pictures. The key axiom is this:
\ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \___/ | \ / \ / \____/ / \ + | = 2 / - | | - ____ / \ | / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \
I’ve given a talk about this proof now and then. It’s a great proof — it’s like a magic trick, where after some string diagram calculations you pull the numbers 0,1,3 and 7 out of a hat as solutions to a certain polynomial equation. I generalized Boos’ proof by extracting exactly the bare minimum requirements on the underlying category, instead of just using real or rational vector spaces.
Bruce Westbury has gone further and written a nice paper about this stuff, entitled Hurwitz’ Theorem. It seems he hasn’t made it public yet, but I guess he will someday.
This does look like fun! Although I do feel hampered by my lack of facility with German in following this paper…
I’m slowly writing up some details in the Lab based on the nice book by Conway and Smith, On Quaternions and Octonions. I also lack facility with drawing string diagrams in the Lab, but maybe someone else can help. The proofs by Conway and Smith do have a very tensor-calculus feel to them…
Todd wrote:
I do feel hampered by my lack of facility with German in following this paper
That does not need to be a problem, of course, there are people who are willing to train both their English and their category knowledge by translating the interesting parts of this paper - but I assume that this becomes obsolete once Bruce has published his paper?
Is the hierachy of categories defined by Dominik Boos something standard? I thought that at least should be broadly known and have a more pertinent name like FinGraph, but did not find any reference, maybe I don’t now the right buzzwords.
I am open to suggestions on how to make this publicly available. At the moment I am in Colorado with my children hoping to be able to get home next week.
It seems that this is not something that a journal would be interested in publishing. I could put this on my web pages (when I get back) and then submit to the arXiv.
Bruce wrote:
At the moment I am in Colorado with my children hoping to be able to get home next week.
I hope Eyjafjallajökull lets you go back!
It seems that this is not something that a journal would be interested in publishing.
Really??? It’s a lot more interesting than most stuff I see in journals. I’m sure you could get it published if you wanted.
I could put this on my web pages (when I get back) and then submit to the arXiv.
Okay, great. It should definitely be on the arXiv.
I’ve been given the okay to make this draft available:
Some small corrections are forthcoming, but you can already see a very nice discussion of composition algebras and vector product algebras, and a diagrammatic proof that every vector product algebra has dimension 0, 1, 3 or 7.
The classic example of a vector product algebra is the space of 3d vectors with its usual dot product and cross product. This arises from the imaginary quaternions by setting
More generally, every normed division algebra is a composition algebra. We can start with any composition algebra, take its space of imaginary elements, and get a vector product algebra using the same formulas. Conversely, any vector product algebra gives a composition algebra.
I’m interested in how this relates to Hisham Sati’s papers.
On the geometry of the supermultiplet in M-theory
According to his theory, M-theory is a limiting case of a more fundamental 27-dimensional theory, the same way the string theories are points on the moduli space of M-theory.
M-theory is 11-dimensional and Hisham Sati’s theory has 27-dimensions. However, the 16 new dimensions are not spatial dimensions but time dimensions. Therefore, this new theory, more fundamental than M-theory, has 10 spatial dimensions and 17 time dimensions.
Thanks for pointing out those papers! For some reason I hadn’t known about them. Crazy people like me have hoped for a long time that the octonionic projective plane would be important in physics. Octonionic structures are showing up all over in string theory and -theory, so why not this?
But, it will take me a long time to say something intelligent about these papers.
Re: Division Algebras and Supersymmetry II
Posted by John Baez at March 16, 2010 4:59 PM